Posts by Anony Mous

20

Hell, what is it

by Anony Mous in

so perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.

and the bible provides confirmation for this.

at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.

Anony Mous

@disillusioned: Gehenna he meant it is a place of eternal conscious torment instead of the annihilation

I think it depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 5:29-30 I think he’s talking that it is better to cut your own arm/eye etc than go down to the literal place of Ben-Hinnom, where according to Jewish lore, people did worship other gods like Baal. Ben-Hinnom was according to some contemporary texts inhabited by a large number of “foreigners” in that day that likely practiced foreign religions, likely because of poverty prostituted themselves etc.

Baal, Molech and other nearby that still believed in Proto-Yahweh in that day were often demonized by Jews as having child sacrifices (propaganda not supported by any archeological evidence) but they also seemed to have “fun” practices like temple prostitution and alcohol.

Whenever Jesus is translated to hell, he refers to Gehenna or the valley of Ben-Hinnom as a literal place, which likely means he sees it as a place where you get to do “immoral things” and separate yourself from the Jewish god. Basically Jesus is saying it is better to mutilate yourself than “go down to the hood” and have fun with “those people” and everyone knew what he meant.

There are only a few places where Jesus refers to Sheol/Hades both for Lazarus and the Rich Man parable and the resurrection and which is a place commonly accepted as darkness/silence after death (a pre-heaven)

I personally think hell gets more of the Orthodox Jewish context of a place where you go practice another religion without (the single unified) God. That is still the closest you get to a Jewish concept of what Christians describe as hell today, you go do bad things and then you are tormented by the consequences and your conscience. Orthodox Jews don’t believe in eternal torment, even go as far as saying they don’t know what happens after death, therefore we need to do our best now. I think that is what Jesus in context of a Jewish teacher would have taught. The Hellenistic views of hell as a literal place of torment only come later as Christianity starting as a Jewish sect integrates more and more teachings from Greek and Romans.

5

A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH

by peacefulpete in

as we know there have been many proposals as to the origins of the god and name yhwh.

the folk etymology of ex 3 aside, there have been a number of suggested roots, many of which seem to be well argued and not without possibility.

however, of particular interest to me are those proposals consistent with the fairly well agreed upon south-eastern origins of the cult.

Anony Mous

I think there are a lot of modern hypothesis and they may all have a piece of truth embedded into them.

I was recently also introduced to some of the Arabic pre-Islamic influences/origins on Judaism/Christianity. It seems a transliteration of the Jesus character was also introduced in pre-Islamic religious lore and versions of this character made it as far as Indo-China and became what we now know as the Buddha.

It seems Yahweh was indeed a Canaanite god (related to the older story of Marduk and Tiamat) and then bits and pieces of Babylonian, Egyptian, Persian, Roman and Hellenistic stories were all taken up into the modern day Bible to make up the story of Yahweh. It is very likely things were borrowed, especially names, from Arabian sources as well as things were translated and retold.

20

Hell, what is it

by Anony Mous in

so perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.

and the bible provides confirmation for this.

at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.

Anony Mous

So perhaps we all heard the JW story about Jesus talking to Gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.

According to JW.org: Tradition relates that the Valley of Hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage. And the Bible provides confirmation for this. At Jeremiah 31:40, for example, the Valley of Hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” There was also the “Gate of the Ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the Valley of Hinnom at its juncture with the Kidron Valley.—Nehemiah 3:13, 14.

I think I heard that in the study of the Greatest Teacher book first. However recently learned that this is not at all true. There was no refuse dump that continuously burned, there is no literary, biblical or archeological reference to such place, and a place like that would leave quite a footprint you’d think. If you read the scriptures, it doesn’t refer to the Valley of Hinnom, it doesn’t even refer to a dump.

The word “evidently” is the tail wagging the dog and it is a far stretch to say that the Gate of the Ash Heap which is a JW mistranslation of the Dung Gate which was a small door and wasn’t built until the 1500s is actually what they say it was used for.

The only reference we have in the Bible to the valley of Hinnom is Jeremiah 19:2 and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate (apparently also for refuse of broken earthenware). For those that can read a map, the Potsherd Gate was on the south side of Jerusalem. The KJV translated that to East Gate and many translations used Dung Gate later to match the gate on the east. Reason being is that most Bible translations aren’t literal, they have a story and canon to uphold so major changes and contradictions in original texts are filtered out by perpetuating more changes where deemed necessary to match the story.

So where does Valley of Hinnom being a continuously burning dump come from - 1200AD Rabbi Kimchi pretty much is the person that introduced the concept to this place. Note that by this time, Judaism had already integrated Hellenistic viewpoints of Hell (Hades and Tartarus) into its theology, unlike around early Christian time where they may have heard about but the scriptures don’t quite illustrate an eternal tormenting place. The conflation of Gate of the Ash Heap or Dung Gate comes later, with “archeologists” and translators sent out in 1500s-1800s with a shovel in one hand and a Bible in the other, confirming archeological finds on the basis of the Bible, not realizing some things weren’t quite the originals they thought.

So even about the simplest of things, JW seemingly can’t keep it straight, using apocryphal stories and opinion from a Rabbi to support stories they have told over and over again. Given modern research, they could simply gloss over these mistakes and misconceptions and quietly leave it out, nobody would be any wiser. Instead they double down on things people can quickly find are medieval apologia.

38

Seems to be a census on vaccine status

by Indoubtbigtime in

the upcoming km school for all elders and servants is going to be in person only with no provision for video conferencing.. only fully vaccinated may attend.

meaning if you missed your last booster you are no longer fully vaccinated.. every coordinator of body of elders has to ask every single ms and elder if they have kept up with all their boosters and are fully vaccinated or they can’t attend.. this seems to be a census the gb want to know how many are keeping up with booster shots.

Anony Mous

HIPAA laws do not apply to voluntarily disclosed information, that being said, it is none of their business.

It’s a great excuse to get away from it all, say you don’t agree with the shots is not disfellowship offense yet, but it is a great way to get removed from elder/servant without any other excuses.

9

Password Leakage?

by Nikolaus in

i got a message that my password on this site has been part of a leakage.

is this known?

where can i change my password?.

Anony Mous

Do you re-use your password anywhere else? I have a password manager with individual passwords for most sites and this site hasn’t been breached according to its reporting. So be careful, change your password only on this site, don’t follow the link in the e-mail you got.

29

Police confirm homicide at Jehovah’s witness center in Colorado after shooter 'threw Molotov cocktail into building'

by TakeOffTheCrown in

jw
friends

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11573103/active-shooter-throws-molotov-cocktail-jehovahs-witness-center-colorado.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top.

.

Anony Mous

Weren’t welcome is a euphemism for disfellowshipped, as I said in the other thread, I think the reason they were there so early with only a few people is because they were probably having a JC or related discussion and instead of giving proper mental health references, the elders tried their own version of therapy to get them disfellowshipped or reinstated, meaning a tongue lashing of all their shortcomings and a good dose of Bible thumping guilt, tripping a wire in the mentally unstable brain.

Obviously the elders contacted the branch first, given the quick response from the branch and got told not to talk and not publicly disclose why they were there and what actually happened. Basically zip it and let us handle it, they were crazy apostates out for revenge.

8

A though on the shooting tragedy

by enoughisenough in

i am thinking about how i read in the reports that the shooter had contacted another person expressing desire to go back .....and was told to contact an elder.

the man seemed to me to be reaching out for help and got put off...and since he had called this person, he was put off by someone he felt could make a difference.

i would hate to be in the shoes of the person the shooter called...for i would feel so guilty, thinking i could have said something else and none the tragedy would have happened.

Anony Mous

If he was a nut job, the elders likely knew he was a nut job and didn’t refer him to proper help, instead it seems they excommunicated and shunned him likely exacerbating the issue. Given the time and descriptions it sounds like he was there perhaps on a judicial committee or review to reinstate and wasn’t happy with the outcome?

Not sure about the wife, seems she was either an accomplice or a victim, depending on who you ask, but it seems this was premeditated and the wife didn’t warn anyone that her husband was making a bomb at home, making her at least an accomplice to that part of it.

The WTBTS also made sure to refer to them as ex-JWs meaning they want to officially distance themselves from them for some reason, great compassion there.

33

Museum Pic

by peacefulpete in

a lot of ink has been spilled on the topic of the cross.

the wt felt it had uncovered some deep conspiracy when they found a number of words were used to describe how jesus was understood to have been killed.

there was an extensive thread many years ago that in short strongly supports the conclusion that at least some nt writers envisioned a cross, while others had a tree in mind.

Anony Mous

@peacefulpete: it is unlikely the early Christians would use the stake given the existing symbolism of the cross. Most early text reference not the cross but either the Chi (X), Taw (+), Chi-Rho (XP overlapped) or reference ‘the sign’. Orthodox Christians still use the + over the elongated cross from Western Christianity.

Note that the Jews (where Christianity originates from) used the sign to mean ‘truth’ or given it was the end of the alphabet, ‘God’. The Jews in turn got it from Egypt and/or Babylon. Likewise Ezekiel, Leviticus and Genesis used the sign for eg. the mark of Cain, the mark of the Passover etc

These signs are thousands of years old and predate Judaism and Christianity and are heavily found in all those texts. As far as the Greek stauros meaning a “upright stake” in this context is only a 18th/19th century invention, and uses a very dubious set of sources, seemingly in an effort to purify Christianity from pagan and Jewish lore, once again, you see this in Millerite theology, which the Russelites and IBSA were borrowing many of these interpretations which eventually split into the faction we now know as JWs.

There is no reference to a stake in early Christian “lore”, all references dating as early as 200AD (Christianity wasn’t widespread until ~100AD) use these symbols to mean Jesus (and/or God, depending on branch):

5

Avatar 2: The Blue Space Monkeys Learn To Swim (spoilers ahead)

by LoveUniHateExams in

i saw jim cameron's avatar sequel last week.. right off the bat re the avatar franchise, i believe that there are two types of viewers.. firstly, there are the fans.

the people who see the pretty visuals and immediately conclude that avatar is the greatest film franchise of all time.. then there are the rest of us - people who can appreciate the world-building and stunning visuals but do not use them to cover over the flaws, more of which later.. the plot - jake sully, neytiri and their children have to leave their idyllic arboreal existence and seek refuge among a green-skinned tribe which lives a semi-aquatic lifestyle.. bad guy quaritch is back ... in avatar form.

that's some great imagination - nice one, jim.. so the humans are back because the earth is dead.

Anony Mous

The effects are great in all these movies but even the first movie was very forgettable characters and the plot line was basically environmentalism and the mythos of the noble savage in disguise. Basically dances with wolves in space.

The thing is that the effects have nothing to do with the director, all that is done by almost a thousand graphics designers many underpaid contractors working the tech sweat shops in India.

33

Museum Pic

by peacefulpete in

a lot of ink has been spilled on the topic of the cross.

the wt felt it had uncovered some deep conspiracy when they found a number of words were used to describe how jesus was understood to have been killed.

there was an extensive thread many years ago that in short strongly supports the conclusion that at least some nt writers envisioned a cross, while others had a tree in mind.

Anony Mous

The cross was in use before and after the start of Christianity and seems to have been in common use as early as the second century such as in the Alexamenos graffito.

Jesus didn’t die on either, he was a mythical figure. The early church followers may have died on crosses or stakes or hung on trees.